40 Winks: a matter of lucidity

Sometimes, there's more than meets the eye. In this case, more than reads the eye. In our current issue for the magazine Serie B I featured an interview with one of my favourite hiphopstrumentalists: the belgian duo 40 Winks. One page only for a conversation that lasted more than two minutes... For those who are fans, this is the full chat.

1. - First of all one of those unavoidable questions: why the name 40 Winks?

WEEDY: First of all we really liked the way it sounds, we had a good feeling about the name. When we formed 40 Winks in 2002, we had a very laid-back kinda style. And we were looking for a name to fit our music. ‘Taking 40 Winks’ is an expression for taking a little nap or rest. That’s what our music is all about: relax, vibe away on the music..

2. - I first heard about you guys when you released the album Sound Puzzle which it was your second LP effort after More Than Loops. I thought it was a very mature and rich creation for a genre (instrumental hip hop) sometimes considered in recession. I actually listed your album as one of the best in 2007. So, I was wondering if you can tell me how well the record went, sales and impact, and why did you move to a different label (you’ve done 3 albums in 3 labels)?

WEEDY: Maybe interesting to know is, at first we wanted to put Sound Puzzle on the internet for free, because we didn’t think there would be any record labels interested. But after we got a feature in multilink magazine in which we mentioned we were finishing up a new album, Rob from Multilink Magazine / Inmo Design hooked us up with Merck records who were immediately interested in releasing Sound Puzzle. Merck records, which was just leaving the music business around that time, was looking for one last surprise release as a farewell to the m3rck community. And we were basically there at the right place and time with our album.

We don’t have exact sales figures for Sound Puzzle. Like with a lot of our releases, we and the label agreed on a batch of free copies of the album as a form of payment. Because of this, we aren't up to date on the sales figures.

PADMO’: We have worked with contracts on more than one occasion, in which we would either get a percentage on every sale or even more after the break-even point. But with the safeties and assurances you get in such a contract, there's also some nasty obligations and responsibilities thrown in too. Typically in most of those contracts you will find a clause securing the record label of any costs due to legal problems arisen from the use of samples. Meaning, they're up for making money of your music which they know contains samples, but if any problem arises, you're on your own and you even get to pay back the label for all their losses.

Since we're not trying to make a living out of our music, we prefer getting a bunch of copies of our own album, to give to friends and family, to supply radio and DJ's, and to do even more promotion on our own. By doing this you leave a bigger impression on the music scene, than just waiting for the record label to do everything for you. In the end you've created your own new opportunity for you next album.

After all, this is all still pretty underground music and with modest sales and record labels barely breaking even, nobody is walking away rich from the table.

WEEDY: In the end, Gabe Koch (the head of Merck records) is the one who has put all his time and money in his label. So since we got our share, he's welcome to get anything out our album he can. There aren’t so many people these days who want to take the risk of bringing out non-commercial music, we respect that a lot.

Project Mooncircle has the same spirit like Merck: bring good music to the people, without doing any commercial compromising. So we were very interested to work with them. They asked us to do a track on the “Heart on the Right Spot” compilation, after that we got the chance to do a full album.

PADMO’: So with Swamp (on which we re-released More Than Loops) doing Japan-only releases and Merck stepping out of the business, this explains why we did 3 labels in 3 albums.

3. - The Lucid Effect is your new LP. Where does the title come from and what is your favorite track in the album?

PADMO': The lucid effect refers to lucid dreaming. A lucid dream is a dream in which, without waking up, you realize you are dreaming and you are able to get in control of your dream and what happens. We felt this album was more dreamy and experimental than usual for us, and thought the title fit well. So the title refers to the vibe of the album and us experimenting and creating whatever comes to mind (listen to "Input A"). Of course we also just thought it sounded cool and it's a play on the whole "sleep" thing (taking forty winks..).

WEEDY: Hmm, favorite track is difficult to say... We tried a lot of different things on this album: a track with live instruments, up-tempo tracks, jazz rhythms,… So it’s difficult to compare them. Actually, I don’t really listen to my tracks again. To me it’s more the process of making the track that I like.. I love making beats, but when they are finished I just move on to the next one. I had a lot of fun in creating "Input A" for example, because the rhythm was very new to me and the track was kinda created by coincidence. I think that’s something very important when you make beats: being able to hear usable things where you can build your track on. I’m not only talking about finding good samples but also the way you chop them up, the EQing, layering, and so on.. I always try a lot of different things with the samples and when I hear something that has ‘that thing’, I start building on it until I feel the track is good enough.

PADMO': My favorite songs are "Highwaves" and "Rap about that" because of the music video IWKN made for it. My favorite song to produce had to be either "Wizardry" or "One Way Ticket".

Rap about that (smoke and mirrors)

4. - You seemed to like simplicity. Very basic beats, patterns of ambient loops, conversations, loads of musicality. If you excuse me, almost ambient hip hop!! (but good, eh?). Again, not very much in fashion… Can you comment about the kind of sounds and references you like/aim?

WEEDY: When I was younger I only listened to Hip Hop. But these days I’m influenced by a lot of different genres. When you’re digging for records to sample from, you’ll come by a lot of dope stuff. It can go from jazz, soul, blues to psychedelic rock.

PADMO': Everything also started with Hip Hop for me. But by going to second hand records stores on a regular basis, you can't help but getting into a wide range of genres. While I'm no expert in other genres than hip hop, i'll try everything out from jazz and psychedelic rock to recordings of rituals and library music, it's sort of like a fetish. Haha..

I think that at first when you're digging for beats, you're impatient and skip over the music to find good loops and sounds. You're just looking for that quick fix, to make a beat. But after a while you take your time to listen more closely and you start to enjoy and respect the music for a whole lot more than just sample fodder.

When we come over a song that sounds perfect the way it is, we won't even bother sampling it, we leave those untouched. And by perfect I mean, when it sounds like what you'd wish you could make of it.

Every now and then we'll do a mix then, and we'll include a lot of those songs we couldn't or didn't want to sample (check out our site to download some of those mixes).

5. - I see a lot of jazz samples, even bossa, with a treatment I didn’t hear since the golden days of Dj Cam (he’s back in full effect now). I’ve read in an interview you did to Multilink magazine you don’t work or consider working with real instruments. Why is that?

WEEDY: The track “Highwaves” on The Lucid Effect is based on real instruments, it was fun to do but an exception for us.

I just love to create something new out of an existing track. The main thing with sample-based music is trying to be as original as possible with a sample. You really need to get all you’re creativity together and make it sound good. We don’t make it too easy for ourselves because we’ve always tried to break free from easy loops. With some beats it‘ll be very difficult to recognize the original sample.

Also, when you look for old records to sample from you’ll discover a lot of good music that you’ve never heard of.

But I wouldn’t mind working with live musicians one day, just to see what would happen. We’re going to make a remix for a Belgian afro-funk band, I’m curious what we’re going to make out of that. We’ll get all the different tracks of the recordings, so that’s a totally different starting point.

6. - I loved your track "Melancholia", from Sound Puzzle. Where does that voice come from? Can you confess the sample??

WEEDY: Hahaa, start digging! It isn’t an obscure record or anything; you can find it easily for a few Euros. By the way, it’s the same singer I used for the track “for the traveler” on Sound Puzzle.

Actually, "Melancholia" was also released on vinyl in 2005 on our EP ‘Extended Pleasure’ that was released on Escapism records.

7.- Can you tell us how much you work with original vinyl and how much digital stuff you buy or download? What is your production environment like in terms of hardware, gadgets, equipment?

WEEDY: I don’t know where other producers get their samples from, but for me vinyl is the best place where you can find unused and original stuff. I think it’s the most obvious place to search for samples. Also, Cd’s and mp3’s are mostly digitally remastered and I don’t like the way that sounds. Vinyl has an older and more vintage sound that I’m looking for.

As for equipment I have a very basic set up: Cubase SX, keyboard, mic, mixer and turntable.

PADMO': I almost exclusively sample from vinyl. It's the easiest to work with, you can easily skip through a song when you're working with it, this is not the case with a CD player.

I never buy music on mp3, I'd rather buy a physical copy and rip it myself. And i'd never sample something i don't own, i feel like owning an original copy of a song you sample is the least bit of respect you can show that artist.

Every now and then I read interviews with producers stating they'll just sample some stuff they downloaded, which makes me wonder whether they expect other people to buy their music when it's released?

As for my equipment, i also have a really basic set up: Wavelab, a pair of monitors, a turntable and mixer, and also an MPC 2000 and an SP 404 which are only used for sampling and not for sequencing.

8. - What is your position about the disappearance of the diggin culture, in the hands of digital downloads and postproduction?

WEEDY: It’s just an evolution I think.. There’s a whole new wave of more electronic beats and a lot of producers are searching for dope synth-sounds instead of dusty samples. I think that has a big influence on the whole diggin culture. But that’s cool, everybody’s looking for the perfect beat in his own way…

PADMO': I don't think the concept of digging is disappearing. Instead of digging for vinyl, it might be searching for dope Nintendo and Sega game sounds at the moment, but it's still the exact same search.

9. - Apparently you don’t tour or do live shows? Why is that? Aren’t live shows the only possible answer to the digital threat?

PADMO’: If we would work with live musicians, it would be logical to do live performances. But our music is sample-based what makes it difficult to perform live. We tried to do live versions of tracks one time for the interlude radio show. We worked with a sampler and scratched with the original records. But it didn’t have the effect we liked.

WEEDY: I think our music is best when you listen to it relaxed at home or in a bar or something. But besides our instrumental albums we also make beats for rappers sometimes, so I guess that is our live aspect.

10.- Your first release was with a Japanese label. Is your audience mainly there and Belgium? What is the feedback you get from your fans and what kind of audience are they?

WEEDY: I must say that since the release on Merck, we reached a different crowd. Before Sound Puzzle we had a mainly Hip Hop minded audience, but since the release on Merck records we see a lot of people who are more into the electronic music and also dig our stuff.

PADMO': Yeah, every label has its followers. With our latest release on Project: Mooncircle we've noticed quite some reactions from Germany and the UK. I think this is pretty cool, because both countries have really strong local scenes.

Japan on the other hand, is something else. I don't know much about it, but i do know that Japan is the lifeline for a lot of indy labels.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR LONG ANSWERS:…and best luck!